16. Dane Baptiste - They’re not goodies, they’re police

This is a different one. We barely touch upon mental health or weirdnesses or introversion, but instead we have a very important talk about the US election, the fascination with nostalgia, cool mothers, racism, feminism, masculinity, teachers, capitalism, voting, basically, anything worth discussing.

Episode 16 – Dane Baptiste

Transcription by Zac Hilliker

[Music playing]

Sofie:  This is the MohPod, The Made of Human Podcast!  I am Sofie Hagen, and it’s my podcast, and this is episode is with Dane Baptiste…and…Oh my God!  Oh…my God!  I…to be honest with you, I didn’t know what to expect.  I mean, I’ve met Dane quite a few times.  We’ve gigged together. Umm. I think we’ve even been on, like, nights out together. Not like big party things, but like with other comedians and social situations and stuff, but, I didn’t really know what to expect when I, when I asked him to come and do the podcast, and, I mean, I…I had to sit for a good 2 hours in silence afterwards and just think.  I kept wanting to pause him and just try and swallow everything he just told me…to, to, to kinda get a grip on everything.  He’s like a machine.  It’s…He’s so intelligent, and uh and and, articulate, and and and um….I’m not saying that I’m surprised he’s intelligent. Not at all.  I just don’t think I knew how passionate he was about these things.  And that’s on my, you know….I’m to blame for that.  I should have, uhhh, I should have known.  I feel bad that I haven’t…I don’t know.  Uhh, been more invested in Dane Baptiste’s personality, I guess?  Uh, I wanna hang out with him forever now, and I wish we could have kept talking for hours, but I…I needed to.  I needed some time to, to think it over, so there will definitely be an episode 2 if he, if he wants to that at some point, but umm… Yeah. Look forward to that.  It’s, it’s intense.  It’s really intense, but…I’m so excited about it, like so excited. So, do…do look forward to that.  Just a quick few admin things.  I wanna thank you soooo, so much…you know what, in general.  I wanna thank you for donating, you know, money per episode over patreon.com.  You’re my favorite people.  It means…more than you can imagine. More than you can imagine. And I know I don’t e-mail all of you back, because I am, tremendously busy.  But whenever I get an email that saying that some of you have decided to give, like $5, or $10 per episode, it warms my heart, and I am so incredibly proud and happy.  So thank you, and thank you for coming to all of my live shows and telling me afterwards that you love the podcast.  Thank you for the emails.  I’m trying to get back to them, but I’m…I’m sorry that I’m being short when I’m emailing you back, but there’s a lot of them, and I’m not complaining.  It’s wonderful, and I love reading them, and I read them over and over again, but…you know, ugh. It means so much! It means so much, and I have to say, I love the people who email me. I can see myself…like, I could…I always think oh those words coulda been written by me had I not been me.  So, umm…so thank you. It means a lot.  I feel like this podcast is…is really going places in terms of reaching people who needs to be reached.  So I’m very grateful for that. Thank you.  All of your support means a lot. Twitter. Facebook. Instagram.  Uhh, iTunes. Patreon. All of that. It’s…I am extremely grateful. So, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.  Uhh…I will be doing shows, uhh.  I mean, go to my website. SofieHagen.com. I’m doing shows all over the place.  I’m in Dubai in January if anyone’s around.  Ummm…My Denmark tour is in February, so I start on the 4th in Copenhagen.  Then I’m going to Aalborg, Aarhus, and Odense.  And uhhh….yeah. Uh, sign up for my newsletter, sofiehagen.com/newsletter.  That’s just a general, like, admin-y thing.  Umm, cause, I guess also…I imagine you’re just going “Yeah, yeah, yeah! Fuck that! Just let me hear the podcast.” And I….I get that. I get that.  But maybe…maybe you should be thinking, “Am I…Am I donating money to this podcast? Should I be donating money to this podcast?”  And you know what, if the right answer is “No, I shouldn’t.”  Then fine.  That’s fine. Absolutely fine.  I completely respect that.  I have the best peo…the best people…the best listeners…the best…I’m hesitant to say fans cause that sounds like I’m, an idol, so I don’t use the word fans.  It’s weird, but listeners or people.  I have the best people. People bring me presents after my gigs. I…I’ll never get used to that. Like, a woman knitted me a cock.  Like, I got a knitted cock, or or, or whatever…what’s that other word?  Croo….croo…croo-shet…crow-shet…crow-shetted?  I sy knitted. That’s the only word that I can pronounce. So, I love you all , and I know you’re gonna love and enjoy this episode with Dane Baptiste. He is…I mean, what a…what a man! Holy shit! I am blown away, and I uhhh, hope you will be blown away too!  So, sit down. Focus. Listen. And enjoy, Dane Baptiste.

[Music playing]

Sofie: Are you, ummm…do you…I’ve heard a few podcast episodes with you, but it’s always the ones where you have to be really funny and stuff.

Dane: Yeah.

Sofie: Are you used to talking about….your emotion….your facial expression!

Dane: Yeah.  I try to get funny, but it…someone will ask me something that’s kind of existential, and I wanna answer.  Uhhh, cause you know, you have to make observations, so you just get bombarded with a premise, and it becomes me rambling.  So, I have an apology in advance for any rambling I do.

Sofie: I think rambling is encouraged here.

Dane: Good

Sofie: I think that’s exactly what I…

Dane: Maybe I’ve finally found my niche.

Sofie: [Laughs] Where are you at the moment in terms of…life?  Like what state of mind are you in at the moment?

Dane: Ummm…I would say…uh, pensive…

Sofie: I don’t even know what that means.

Dane: Contemplative.  Just uhh…

Sofie: Yeah?

Dane: I’m just thinking, I’m thinking about a lot of my next moves.

Sofie: Yeah?

Dane: And uhh, also uhh, a lot of speculation, uhhhh, socially.  So there’s some curiosity, some excitement, some dread, but then, in a way I’ve always also sort of been a kind of a cautious optimistic, so I hope for the best, but I prepare for the worst.  Which is pretty close to where we are socially and politically.  So yeah, just getting ready. And umm…but I suppose, yeah, I try and be a lot…uhhh, I rationalize it a lot in that, you know, this is not, this is nothing new…seen it before.  You kinda find that creativity prospers under these conditions as well.  

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: So you know…

Sofie: You mean like the political climate.

Dane: Yeahhh, political climate, social one as well.  So you tend like, yeah, buff diamonds tend to be found with this pressure, this heat.

Sofie: Did you see it coming?

Dane: Yeahhhh.

Sofie: Yeah?

Dane: I did see it coming.  Ummm…it, more specific examples, uhhh…with the U.S. election.  I…I was surprised that uhh, that Trump continued his, uhh, candidacy up until the election.  I was surprised, I thought at some point he’s just be like “Ehhh.  I don’t care.”

Sofie: Yeahhh.

Dane: “I’m rich. I don’t care.”  I thought, I thought he would’ve, you know…his ego would’ve kicked in and been like “I don’t need this.  I’m rich.”

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: “And they’re talking about me this way.”  But, yeah man, that was…

Sofie: So you’re more surprised about him and not the fact that people voted for him.

Dane: Yeah, I’m more surprised by him.  Because…I mean, I know…I’m well aware of the ego that he has, but I feel like, I don’t think he still understands the gravity of the situation he’s in.

Sofie: I think that as the most uplifting tweet on that whole… and during that whole thing, was someone saying, “Guys, it’s really hard to be the president. He’s not gonna…It’s so boring. It’s so much paperwork.”

Dane: So much paperwork! So much paperwork. So much diplomacy. Ummm…you know, being the lightning rod for any of the issues that are involved, and for somebody that has been on the other, more corrupt and, you know, more prosperous side of capitalism, why he’d wanna do that, it just doesn’t make any sense. Like, you’ve been able to enjoy all of the fruits of, you know, politocracy where you can, you know, lie about your taxes and lie about your income, and, you know…you can’t…you’re gonna have that kind of….it’s gonna be more transparent if you do that while you’re in office. So…at best you might get a Watergate scandal, but I think, you know, at worst…I mean, this guy could be the Nero to, like, America’s Rome.  I think that’s the stage we’re at, and I feel people, uhh…I’ve been watching South Park recently, and I think, yeah, it’s this…this fascination we have with nostalgia is gonna, yeah…it’s gonna, unmm yeah…

Sofie: Do you mean when people say good ole days?

Dane: Yeah! Good ole days!  Yeah! It’s just this whole thing.  Which is a weird thing to hear people discuss that in Western Europe where we’re a bit more secular, and, you know, fundamentalist Judaic Christianity doesn’t really breed as much as it does in the states, that people are like “I wanna go back to how it was.”  But that’s, uhh…it’s uhhh, counter, uhhh, intuitive idea against evolution.  You can’t go back.  That means you’re regressing, so we can’t go back.  We have to evolve.  Otherwise, you become extinct.

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: And, you know, I think people that have been yearning for this nostalgia, you know, maybe they should start thinking about extinction.  Cause that’s what’s next if you’re not prepared to adapt and change

Sofie: Yeah. Absolutely.

Dane: So, yeah, it’s a….it’s a very strange thing.  The theory I have about it is that, we’re human beings.  If you are an evolutionist then we do…uhhh originate from the primordial soup, and we’ve been like single-cell organisms and we’ve followed this whole evolutionary chain, is that we’re gonna share traits with a lot of our different stages of development, which mean, you know, some human beings have some tendencies to be like, scavengers or be like rodents, or…but one thing we have to do is we have to change survive, and think we’ve got to a stage…maybe as homo sapiens as a whole that we’ve just become very vain, and that we think because we have consciousness, this is where existence ends.

Sofie: Yeahhhh! This is where it ends!

Dane: Because we’re conscious of existence…

Sofie: We’re done!

Dane: Yeah, we’re done. We’re done.

Sofie: We’re the perfect way we could ever be.

Dane: Yeah, the perfect way….exactly!  That’s the point where we’ve gotten to.  We’ve gotten this weird, kind of, uhhh, vanity about it in that we are supposed to understand that evolution is, you know, borderline scientific fact, but then we can’t deal with the fact that, you know…there’s gonna be something after us.

Sofie: But doesn’t that also work on like a minor spectrum where we as, like individual people go, “Oh, I’ll never be more intelligent than I am now.  I have all of the answers right now.”

Dane: Exactly, yeah yeah.

Sofie: “I’m the oldest I’ll ever be.”

Dane: “I am the oldest I will ever be.”  Yeah yeah.  And it’s….it’s….yeah.  It’s a weird thing…concept for people to grasp. That there’s…there’s no such thing as the present.  You’ve never been able to capture it.  Like, if you reduce it metrically to a nanosecond…there is no such thing as the present.  It’s always ongoing.

Sofie: That’s terrifying.

Dane: Yeah.

Sofie: That’s absolutely terrifying.

Dane: Yeah, yeah. But…

Sofie: You say it with such calm, as if you didn’t just…

Dane: Yeah!  Because…because it’s…

Sofie: …break, the world.

Dane: Yeah, but I say it with calm because it’s something that’s out of my control.  So there’s no need for me to try to grasp something that I can’t control, and this is….so, if you’re a creationist in that respect, then is that these are forces which are divine and are bigger than you. That you should…that’s what you should be in marvel of, and maybe you should respect it a lot more, as opposed to worrying about controlling the definition of your creator or the definition of the divine, just…it’s bigger than you anyway.  It’d be a lot…You’d be a lot more disappointed if, the uhhh, if the divine was something that you could conceptualize as a human being.  Then that would kind of defeat the purpose of it being divine in the first place if you was able to work it out like that.  So, things like, you know, existence and time, they’re all of the mind, and, you know, is….they’re linked but at the same times they’re very opposite ends of the spectrum and stuff. So…yeah I guess that’s my mind where it is right now, is kind of pondering existence and…

Sofie: Wow.

Dane: And I guess it comes from, you know, now embracing comedy as a career is that, it only works if you don’t take yourself and take things too seriously.

Sofie: Yeah?

Dane: And that’s the thing is that, you know, even if I do sometimes contextualize my thoughts in terms of being a young man or being a black man or a heterosexual man…it’s that, you know…you also…you’re not the best black guy to ever live.  Greater, stronger men who may have been more actively involved in civil rights or….or emancipation have lived before you.  Umm, so I shouldn’t take myself too seriously, and at the same time you’re conflict by the fact that….it’s likely you’re composed of the same atoms because nothing is created or destroyed.  You’re composed of the same thing.  Umm, and that’s the thing, yeah, and I guess when you start to leave yourself open to that kind of thinking, you see why there is an intersect between evolutionist and creation theory, because…what I’m describing is, you know, the laws of physics where nothing can be created or destroyed.  Your body will be composed of dead matter, and that’s come together, and it’s carbon.  Which technically is…you’re describing reincarnation to creationists.  So they all…there’s all…It’s all the same, so you just can’t shit too seriously man.  So I guess that’s it.  Yeah. I’m just watching the world burn.

Sofie: [Laughs] But are you…but you should know you’re analyzing it burning.  Like while you’re watching it burn, you have your analytical glasses on.

Dane: Yeah.  Cause I guess…I guess…I suppose in comedy or if you’re some kind of creative, you’re chronicling your time here.  So that’s what I’m doing.

Sofie: Yeah!

Dane: You know, I guess this is the part I saw, which I guess I’ll be able to relate to somebody at some point, or pass that on to successive generations or successive organisms or whatever it is.  So it’s just me watching and observing, and…and maybe learning, maybe learning stuff, and maybe, you know…maybe parts of me are like, “You know, some of this is familiar.”

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: But like I said, it’s taken place on a smaller scale.  Maybe I saw like anarchy and saw systems of racism trying to reprise themselves when I was in primary school, and you just seeing it again.  You see how it unfolds, and so…I guess I can be a bit more relaxed about it.

Sofie: Do you feel, uhhh, you said there had been better…better people in the struggle against racism.  Do you feel like a responsibility, cause now you’re a public figure.

Dane: Yeah.

Sofie: Do you feel like you should be fighting against it in a more activist way, or…do you know what I mean?

Dane: Yeah.  I mean, I look it as though, you know, they will probably become a time when I can be more actively involved.  And I feel like I’m gaining more profile, but probably not at level whereby I can necessarily affect things by what I say, as much as I’d like to, so, ummm…I think it is, uhhh…when you think there’s nothing that you can do, you do what you can.

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: So, you know, I guess in me is that I have to be a coherent mouthpiece and be a…and provide like a positive perspective or positive aesthetic, but at the same time, you know, some people aren’t gonna like me no matter what I do.  And I kinda like that.

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: Cause it means I’m not lost about myself.  And, I say if you’re lucky, if you’re upsetting some people, you’re supposed to be…

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: Cause you’re challenging the way they think, and you’re waking them from that cognitive dissonance, so they should be scared!  So in that way, maybe sometimes if you are antagonizing people it’s a good thing.

Sofie: Yeah!

Dane: So, I’m, I’m…

Sofie: Do you get people telling that they don’t…that they’re not into you?

Dane: Ummm…Sometimes, yeah.  I get stuff…Umm…I’ve had, you know, trolls online and stuff as well.

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: But again, it’s like…I find things a lot easier to uhh, rationalize and deal with, but I just thinking of them in terms…as in such a…as much as an infantile way as possible.  Cause I just think a lot the things…and you know, there’s theories like, you know, psycho…psychology theories that suggest that your formative years are from naught to 7. So what kind of person you are by then is the kind of person you’re gonna be…and…and not necessarily meaning you wouldn’t change, but it’s maybe your approach to dealing with certain social situations will be the same. And, you, know, I remember when I was 7 and older, it used to be people that are anonymous who used to scroll stuff onto like school desks, they’d write, or they’d put a swastika on a school desk, or they’d write something on the toilet cubicle.  And you wouldn’t know who they were, but you would assume, well, they were never somebody you would give the time of day to, cause you think “Well, if you’ve got the time to sit in a public toilet and write that, then you’ve got so many issues that I can’t even bother to deal with.” Like, no one else…everyone else is transient when it comes to like, a toilet on a train, so the fact that you’ve taken this time and…you know…your first thought, or my first thought is, “It smells of other people’s feces in here.  Let me do what I need to do and leave as soon as possible.”  This person has taken enough to be like, “Oh my God.  Let me, errrr!”  And so, you never gave them the time of day. You never gave them any more thought about that, but it’s just that because we live in the here and now where, supposedly if something is produced digitally, then it has some level of “adadation.”  And that’s who they are, is trolls are the same people who used to write on the back of buses, on back of a chair on public transport, or in a park where you see something offensive, and be like, “Who’s got time to do that in a park?” You know…that’s just who they are, but it’s just that…people…they just…this tribe has now migrated online, like most other ones, and we’ve just got this idea that they’re any more dangerous, and they’re not really.  So, ummm…yeah, I do get backlash from people as well.  It’s just that I’ve had enough experience so you can…I actually…I actually prefer…racism.  Extroverted racism to racism posing as pseudo-intellectualism.

Sofie: Ohhhh. Yeah.

Dane: That’s even…that’s much worse. Or denial. Even denial of racism. That’s even worse.  I find that a lot more offensive. It’s like, you know.  I…I don’t have to experience sexual assault as a woman for me to know that it exists.

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: I didn’t…I don’t need to be presented necessarily with statistical evidence for me to know that it exists.  Like, you should have, enough emotional intelligence to know that that kind of thing exists.

Sofie: Are people denying that racism exists?

Dane: I mean, that was a big part of…like when I first started doing comedy in the UK, there was a lot of…you’d hear a lot of mutterings of “Oh, what’s with that race stuff?  Why are we talking about race?  That’s not really an issue in the UK.”  It was…

Sofie: What!?

Dane: That was always a conversation, and I think most, uhhh…I think most acts of color would be able to verify that, but a lot of the time people are like, “We haven’t got race as an issue in the UK like it is in the states. Race is not a big thing, and race is not a big deal.  Why are you always going on about race?  …..race-based material.”  And it was a lot of denial about the existence of it, and, you know…it’s kinda like….it’s so funny that, you know, you can show these people the X-Files, and they’d be like, “Well, there might be some truth in that.”  But racism and everyone’s like, “We need to see more evidence.”

Sofie: [Laughing]

Dane: Which is weird, so…

Sofie: But I guess a lot of the problem…I feel like I’ve heard about like liberalism at the moment is that we’re all in this bubble, and we all…you know, like we didn’t think that Brexit would actually happen because all of our friends on Facebook would never vote for Brexit.  So I get that you can be a bit…like I get shocked when I meet people who feel that way, but we know it’s real.  Like you can’t not know it’s real…

Dane: To be honest…yeah…there is…I mean, I guess the uhhh, liberal caucus of sorts is dealing with a lot of backlash from people being like…everyone’s being like, “You were so stupid. You were so naïve. You didn’t know that this is what the world was like.”  And that’s true to an extent, but at the same time, like most people, you’re only able to form your perception based on the stimuli that you see, so I would argue…and I’ve argued this many times with people, is that, there came a point at the turn of the century where people got to see some, uhhh…some caricatured versions of themselves that shed their aesthetic, and we all thought, “Oh! Well, you know, I’m seeing some gay people on TV, cause Will & Grade, or you know, or Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, and…which means now, you know, it’s fine.  And people are making songs about, you know, homosexual relationships.  Katy Perry’s got a song about kissing a girl, and she liked it! Yuh!”  So, everyone started rejoicing at this idea that we’d now had this new dawn of liberalism, however…the issue is that aesthetic is not the same as, uhhh, you know, political paradigms, or social paradigms, or economic ones, because while Katy Perry was reaching chart success with that song, when the issue of homosexual marriage came up, then she wasn’t around.  And, you know, there’s this whole, and you know…it’s the same kind of thing where…it’s nice for everybody to have, you know, box braids and everyone to enjoy hip hop now, and everyone’s allowed to enjoy twerking, but then no one really wants to comment and make songs about the fact that most…60% of women are victims of sexual assault before they’re 19, and, you know, and that…obviously, we still are being apolog…very apologists, and you know…just…a lot of people kinda like, “Well, you know, it’s a lot more black people on TV now through the reality shows and stuff like that.”  And everyone’s like, “It’s fine now, and you can make money.” But, it’s like, well the economy has expanded and that’s why everyone is doing ok.  And then…and that all coincided with like new label taking power in the UK, and people being able to go to university.  And everyone was fed this lie that everything’s ok now.  And, it’s just…a weird thing again where people feel that is things expand they have to contract, and these people…you might not hear them, doesn’t mean they’ve disappeared.  And, yeah, I just think we got to this point where people started resting on their laurels.  And, you know, and it’s….it just shows you. It’s actually strangely linked to economics, cause soon as the economy contracted and we had, you know, crisis, 2002, 2008…then you start to seeing the rise of right-wing groups again.  And people…you know…when people could afford to employ a Polish person, it was fine.  Now that they can’t afford to employ one, they need to do work themselves…all of a sudden, Polish people are a problem. And then, so…

Sofie: And there’s that thing of giving a bit…and then…and then feeling that that’s enough.

Dane: Yes. Yeah yeah.

Sofie: No no. We have…

Dane: Good point. That’s a great point.

Sofie: “We have a woman on a panel show.  What more do you want?  You got a vote. What else do you want?”

Dane: That’s a great point.  That’s a really good point.  That’s a great point, Sofie.  Cause, this is a argument with some of see, my contemporaries of color, is that having more doesn’t mean it’s equal.  But this is…this is the response.  People are like, “Well, it’s better than it has been.”  Doesn’t mean it’s good.  You know…it’s like, you know…you’re not…”I’m raped and beaten.”  “Oh, he didn’t beat me today, but I was still raped.”  Doesn’t make anything ok.  

Sofie: Yeah, that’s not how it works.

Dane: You’re still being abused, so…

Sofie: Yeah, like one woman on a panel show…there’s still 50% of us in the population.

Dane: Well, exactly, yeah.  More than them in the population, and that’s the uhh…that’s part of the entire paradox of, you know, of contemporary life, is that some men have this inept fear of a gynocracy, where if women ruled the world…”But if they ruled the world then, wars! And blah blah blah!”  Yeah, but there’s already wars, so…I don’t know what your point is that wars, so if there wasn’t, then we’d have pax humana cause we don’t. Cause we have wars, and we have perpetual wars.  Anyway, “The violence and the emotion. Blah blah…”  But we still have ongoing violence and…usually they are the recipients of violence before anybody else, especially at times of war, and yet, you know…

Sofie: Yeah, look at the world now. How much worse could it get?

Dane: Yeah, how much worse could it get?  But then it’s…at the same time it’s, “Well, women!  And then feminists just wanna punish men!”  Well if women lived to just punish men, they could just kill you as soon as you come out of the womb.  And that would be the end of it.  So, very clearly there is not this concerted effort for them to destroy the patriarchy because at every point in life…a man has cried for a woman’s love and care, and in most cases, you are reciprocated with that love, so if they wanted to kill us, they could.  They could’ve done that a long time ago very easily.  So, us trying to have a hand in terms of using Abra…religion to control birth, or, you know, being anti-abortion…if they want us dead, we’d be dead.  So very clearly they don’t want us dead.  So again, it’s one of those things…once I’m aware of that, like, the idea of, you know, a whole…all feminists…it doesn’t scare me, or it doesn’t worry me at all, because, you know…you notice, my mom’s a woman, so I seem to be doing fine.  It’s not really an issue.  It doesn’t really affect you, but umm…

Sofie: You think one of the reasons that men are afraid of feminists was because they know, uhh…how much it has to do with men, and how much is has to do with men….you know, feminism being about men being allowed to show emotion, and men should be allowed to be, like…to cry.

Dane: Yeah.

Sofie: And, you know, you know how we teach men to be real men!

Dane: Yeah!

Sofie: Do you think there’s a lot of it that comes from men being fucking terrified at the idea that suddenly it’s gonna be ok to just show emotion and not having to be so tough?

Dane: I think….I don’t think that that’s necessarily all of it.  Because, I said…I mean if a man….if you have some level of awareness, you know as a man, up to a certain point you’re always crying for a woman anyway.  Because you do that as the only way you can communicate with your mother in the first place.  Because, every man receives their primary education from a woman.  You learn how to nurse, and you learn how to be warm. And most of that comes from the fact that you have to cry in order for you to receive those things, for you to be gratified. This is what you learn. Ummm…But I think, so far as, uhhh, men so much fear of feminism.  It’s umm…again it’s something that’s reinforced to them and suggested to them…not just by this man alone.  Because, like I said, when you think about it, feminism is not…it’s sort of…womanhood.  It’s feminism, which means we’re talking about, maybe, the feminine hemisphere of the brain…

Sofie: Exactly.

Dane: …as opposed to just…which is more of an idea as opposed to, you know, distinction by gender.  In the same as way that, you know, if I say a black person. Technically we’re a socially created species, because for example, Ramesh is Sri Lankan.  He is darker than like my mother, my sister, my father, but he would be considered Asian and they’d be considered black.  So, it’s not really down to your melanation of your skin.  Also, there are some black people who have never been to Africa, never been born in Africa, so it’s more against, due to mentalities cause they’re socially created.  And umm, because there are some people…I know for a fact, there are some black people that, if there was a movement, an active movement for black people to assert some power, they would be opposed to it.  You know…Ben Carson is not gonna be part of the black revolution.  We know this for a fact.  You know…He’s not gonna be a part of it.  He’s gonna fight against it.  Don King is not someone who is gonna be a part of any revolution that takes place amongst, you know, the diaspora.  So, it’s a mentality, and it’s the same thing with women, as well, is that there are just some people who are profiting from the subjugation of women, and it’s kind of like…another paradox was when, “Women can be gold diggers, and if you get divorced from women, they take half your money.”  Well, where did they get the idea that a man’s value…or his masculinity is linked to his wealth. Who’s been suggesting that to them?  Who’s producing the advert time and time again that you have to have this disposable income to buy this materialism in order for men to like you?  Who’s been telling them that for years? So, if it was down…cause…you know, most of the time, women aren’t necessarily concerned with your income.  This is how we assert manhood.  You know?  This is why, you know, the patriarchy has created a society or social hierarchy based on wealth.  That’s is not something that women have created.  That’s something men have created, so how can we call women gold diggers, really?  Doesn’t really make any sense, so…But, I…it’s just…there are just some people that…or I guess there are certain positions of power which rely on the subjugation of women. Because, you know, technically speaking, in…when it comes to the exchanges of power, it starts in the womb anyway.  Because if you’re having a child, you are potentially raising an army, and that’s how people see it when it comes to things like, you know, theologically or politically, is that, you know…if people can have children and they educate their children how they want, then, that power’s sort of out of our hands, which means we risk losing power.  And that really what the opposition o feminism comes from, because…as a man…number 1, being that, you know, the feminine is the dominant hemisphere on this planet, and really the biggest amount of people in terms of the human race on the planet, then…even…we can stratify by feminism, but really feminism is the fact that it comes under humanism, because by you saying you’re opposed to women having equal rights means that you’re opposed to the majority of humanity having equal rights on this planet, which makes you a psychopath or a sociopath, at best.  So…and also, it’s like…for most people like, if….we’re able to do what we want and women can dictate how their own children are raised, and the fact that the feminine is not pre…is predisposed to nurture, cause it’s naturally maternal, then…there really is not gonna lead to any kind of…it’s really gonna be the opposite of war.  But it’s just that issue that people are afraid because, there is just tiers of power, and the idea of feminism takes away from that power, because obviously patriarchy, you know…patriarchy is linked to a lot of ideologies that are quite counterproductive to human life, like the man has to bring home the bacon, and he has to, go outside and work, and boh boh boh boh boh.  And all these things really, they work to kind of, just stratify the human race a lot more, and that’s what people are opposed to.  And I say…when I talk about feminism, not in terms of men and women and gender, it’s just that part of the hemisphere and that kind of thinking which is about, you know, emotional expression and creativity and not having to do just lateral thinking, you know.

Sofie: Were you ever at a point where you were opposed to it? I’m talking from a point of view where I was…I’m relatively new to feminism.  I was a massive misogynist when I lived in Denmark, because I had no idea.  Did you have…were you ever at that point?

Dane: Ummm….I wouldn’t say that I was opposed to it liberally, but in retrospect, it was subconsciously suggested to me that there are roles for men and women.

Sofie: Yeah. In the same way as we’re all racists. We’re all homophobic. We all have it in us.

Dane: Exactly, yea.  So I’d probably be like, “If I’m…I should go to work and make the money, and my wife can take care of the house, and she’s the nest maker.”  That was probably the mentality that I had, but for me, I was like, I thought I was being noble.  “It’s my job as a man to bring home the bacon, and you know, my wife cooks it, and we have a family and raise our children.”  But then at the same…but then it’s more like, I guess…even now, I kinda realize I was really just regurgitating stuff that’s been suggested to me.  Because, you know, I grew up in a household where, you know, my mother waited until she had kids, and then she went back, you know, to work and got herself a degree.  And…you know, even then as a kid, I guess I was emotionally intelligent enough to know that this doesn’t affect me at all.  This gives her some intrinsic reward, which I can only benefit from, and she’s…and also, if your mother, especially in a patriarchal society, is able to achieve, then really she’s putting herself in a higher percentile.  Which means, you’re coming from somebody who’s able to achieve despite what the world tells them, so…that kind of works for me more than…that kind of works for me.  And I suppose, you know, having a black consciousness that any instance of social rebellion that’s coming from my household, I’m like, I’m all for that anyway. So, I was always on board with that, you know.  And it’s…more time I…I probably spend with my mother of recent times, is you see her more for the woman she is other than just being a mother, so…you know, like, my mother…cause she was a nurse, and so she was a…she had even said that, you know, it was up until I got married, she said dad and I was on the pill and stuff like that, and I’m just like, you know, that’s so progressive and so good to hear that she was, you know, conscious about birth control and stuff.  Like, my mom, in past conversations, as far back as like maybe 10, 15 years ago, I didn’t even hear her talking about issues like female genital mutilation and…you know, it made me aware of it, it’s just like, so it’s really…it was really good, you, to have, you know, the first woman you encounter to be that progressive anyways.

Sofie: Yeah. She sounds really cool.

Dane: Yeah.  So, to hear her talk sometimes, you think, “Oh, she’s weird.”  But, at the same…but all mothers are like that, but really, in retrospect, given the background my mother had, like…you know, I always think that there is a zeitgeist of homophobia within, amongst black men, and…it’s not just a black male thing, like male not opposed to like gays, cause, you know, we buy clothing made by gays, we dance and listen to music made by gay men, black or white, so…there’s not really this opposition there.  Like I said, it’s this fear of a loss of masculinity rather than hating a person for who they are.  But at the same time I think to myself, that’s never been something that ever crept into my head.

Sofie: No.

Dane: But again, it’s the reason why I said…it’s because, my mother was always like…you know, I used to work at a record label, so the men at worked with in those days, working in the record label on the weekends, like, some of the men were ummm…well she would say crossdressers cause that was, you know, that was the term at the time.

Sofie: Croshdr…

Dane: Crossdressers.

Sofie: Oh, crossdressers!  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dane: Yeah. So, it was, then…in my time it would have been, you know, transvestite, or, you know…

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: Or, who…there’s even…who knows the label is now. It doesn’t even matter!  But, again it’s like, you know…

Sofie: Yeah.  My grandfather once referred to gay people as uhh, ummm….lady boys, not having understood anything at all.

Dane: Yeah, yeah.  Not understanding anything at all, but…yeah, it’s just…people, you know, I guess, it’s just what kind of level of perspicacity that you have that you can use, but ummm…I mean, yeah, it probably helps me a lot more that I was in an environment where…it was very matriarchal, but also very progressive.

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: But then my dad was home as well, and also my dad is very masculine, like, he works with his hands, he’s an auto mechanic, he was a security guard.  But at the same time, I know…if his mother calls him and needs anything, there in a flash.  So…so I guess that was easier for me to rationalize why feminism works, because I know that you can be very manly and still, you know, be submissive to a matriarchal influence.  And it doesn’t…it won’t threaten your masculinity, or it won’t threated your manhood.  You know, to be aware of your feminine side anyways, so….it’s been fine.

Sofie: So when you were 7 and you were done as a person…

Dane: Yeah.

Sofie: You’ve been….so how were you like as a 7-year-old?

Dane: Very similar to how I am now.  So, you could imagine how hard it was for people in primary school to deal with me, because I would just question everything.  Like, and any time someone was giving me convention like, “If somebody hits you, you tell the teacher.”  Then I would be like, “Yeah, but, if I just stay there and just be on the brunt of a unprovoked attack, then by the time I get to you, I might be concussed, maimed, killed, or worse. So it just makes sense for me to defend myself initially, and then make you aware of it.  But, you know, given that if I experience a threat, then I’m gonna have adrenaline, and it’s fight or flight, then I’m gonna defend myself.  I haven’t really got the time to rationalize and think, ‘I should go and tell the teacher.’”  But they’d be like, “Well, we’ve got rules in this school, and you can’t bluh bluh bluh!”  Well, I’m just talking to an idiot then.  

Sofie: [Laughing]

Dane: You’re an adult but you’re an idiot, and that is the kind of conversation I would have, you know…

Sofie: As a 7-year-old.

Dane: As a 7-year-old.  And which was why I would always get in trouble with every teacher, because if they said something, and I was definitely the person that if somebody tried to justify a rule…or like, a, I guess a structure of authority on nothing other than their rank, then I’d be like, I’m not having it, I’m not listening to you.  Because…in the case of my parents, for example, if they said to me “You can’t have this.” And I said “Why?” Then, it’s like I could look at them, and they’d be like “Because we don’t afford ourselves any disposable products, and our money goes towards taking care of you, and if we have child benefit, our child benefit goes taking care of you so you can do extracurricular activity.”  There is tangible evidence that they are serving me, you know, for the good, for my good, for my best interests. You saying it’s because I told you so because I’m a teacher….that’s not good enough for me, I’m afraid.

Sofie: Yeah, I’m gonna need…

Dane: Yeah, “Cause I’m…Cause I’m a teacher!”  Well, I’ve never seen a qualification….that suggests that you have….

Sofie: [Laughing] “Can I see your CV?”

Dane: …a superior attitude… Yeah, Cause, you know, technically a teacher…you know, you might not…you’re teaching me something where you may be below a particular threshold where you’d be that qualified to even do this job…practically…so, not to undermine you, but at the same time, you just saying it’s because I said so…well, you didn’t create me, so you don’t have that right to tell me that.  Because when I fini…leave these school walls, you are not responsible, nor do you have an integral part of my welfare, so you’re not taking care of me all the time, and you don’t take care of me unconditionally, so I can’t obey you unconditionally.

Sofie: Do you feel that about all authorities?

Dane: Yeah.

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: Yeah.  Completely.  Umm…yeah, it’s probably one of the worst parts of human existence is just, yeah, is the uhhh…

Sofie: The power hungriness.

Dane: That!  The power hungriness, yeah!  The love of power as opposed to the power of love. Yeah.

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: And this is what I mean about feminism, is the sad thing is that, you know…in ways, like a lot of ideologies whether it’s anti-racism or feminism is that there are some people that, given this, you know, thrown this, uhhh, bone of power by the powers that be, and being able to make part of the bourgeoisie, sometimes they are the people that, uhhh…perpetuate the systems more than the people that created it.  And it’s, it’s actually…I think Kanye West who actually said it.  He’s like, you know, racism now is like real estate.  So much has been invested into it that now it just pays for itself.  And what you don’t even necessarily…so, before, the idea when you think about racists…conjure the idea of working class white people, but…you know, now, you have in China, like, skin bleaching creams sell all the time, people are having eye-widening surgery…where, you know, you’re still an enorm…you’re still a population of 1.7 billion people who have images of themselves projected all the time.  But now with the free economy, the idea suggested to them is that Eurocentric features are directly linked to prosperity, so that’s why they have to look more European in order for them to be successful.  That’s what they tell themselves…like, when I went to Thailand, me and my friends, we went to a bar.  I’m the only person that gets left alone. No one’s approaching me. No prostitutes are coming near me, because my dark skin is that I’m poor. I don’t have any money. But, they look Arabic or they look white, they look like they’re rich, so they’re gonna get hassled. Works out perfect when you’re a tourist.  Being a black tourist is so nice.  You don’t have to do anything. Everyone leaves alone, cause everyone thinks that you’re broke, or that you live there, so it’s fine.  Everyone just leaves you alone.  But, yeah, it’s just…it just…yeah, it just goes to show that there are just some people that, like I said, just a love of power and this idea that we have to assert ourselves by rank that causes a lot of problems, and it’s…again, it’s like, yeah, people wrestle with their internal control.

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: And so that’s just how they try and control the external.

Sofie: Well, that’s what my mom would always point at…anyone that was any kind of…anything from like ticket inspectors, to police officers, to soldiers, and go, “Why are people choosing that?  Like, just give it an extra think…”  Why would….cause I bet…of course there are people who do it because they want to protect or whatever…but there are….and you can sense it…

Dane: Yes, you can.  You can sense it.

Sofie: You can sense whose there that fucking love that you can’t find your ticket.

Dane: Yeah. Exactly.

Sofie: Just a small think like that.

Dane: Because it’s a small thing of power.  And I’ve had some heated arguments, especially at that level, cause like “You’re not even brave enough or courageous enough to even be a police officer, and put yourself in physical mortal danger, and now you’re trying to assert some authority over a ticket. Come and get it if you’re big.

Sofie: [Laughing]

Dane: Come and get it!  Come and get it! Cause you’re not a man.  Don’t forget that.  You can see this ticket, but don’t forget.  You’re not a man.  You’re a weakling.  Just remember that.  And they know that themselves, and I’ll remind that all the time, and even…it’s like…

Sofie: [Laughing] That’s so harsh.

Dane: No, but, it’s…no!  But, that…but again…Why I would…

Sofie: No, I love it!

Dane: Reason why I would do it…Not to be harsh, but it’s cause, again, like I said, these things are formed in people’s psyches when they are very young.  I’ll make them regress back to that time, cause I know why you’re here.  Cause you were bullied, and now you think you can try to get some power back.  I didn’t bully you.  You need to address that somewhere else.

Sofie: Hoe many ticket inspectors have you sent into like…

Dane: Ahh, loads! When I first started doing comedy, like 3 or 4.

Sofie: …a spiraling depression.

Dane: But they’re probably already depressed!  Why should I…they’re projecting, man…like, how people have to inhibit the behavior of others.  And even, with people, and you say like they’re in society to protect people, I understand that, but it’s just whole thing…

Sofie: You’re saying there might be some of…there might be some with good intentions, is what I feel like I should be saying…

Dane: Of course! Of course!  But the thing is that the…

Sofie: I just don’t think I’ve met them.

Dane: Yeah. Yeah!  And the reason why is because what you can argue really is that you’re still…by the fact that you’re entering the profession of policing…you’re quantifying, uhhh, morality based on your salary like how much you can do it up to.  Cause you’re only in it to contracted hours.  Once your hours end and your shift ends, then your work for changing…that ends too.  And also, police…here’s the thing as well, and it’s…it’s…it’s more of a problem with the rest of society as opposed to these authoritarians, is that...  Police…the etymology of that word is policy…so you’re not…it’s not like…you’re not a justice, or you’re not a good person.  They’re not goodies.  They’re police.  And that means that they enforce policy, which means…they aren’t in a position where they like, “I believe these ideas are…these actions that we do, or this statement or statement is for the benefit of humanity.”  What they say is “This is a policy. These are laws, which are incentivized financially, and we just enforce these laws, or we enforce these policies.”  Because technically speaking, 34 years ago, homosexuality was illegal.  Which means, if you’re a police person, you were working to enforce something which morally wasn’t wrong, and that’s the issue is that, when people think of the police, people confuse morality for legality, and those aren’t the same things.  Cause you can write laws which suit you, because laws are manmade.  Those are manmade ideas.  Morality is uhhh…is an idea of more of common sense, where…actions that cause harm or loss to a human being, or inevitably by cause and effect lead to some kind of reprisal for you and harm and loss to you, which is why you do unto others, cause you don’t want done to you.  Cause there’s cause and effect. So…but that’s not the structure how police work.  And it’s a weird thing where, you know…everyone else, if they don’t do their job properly, they’re scrutinized.  Like if you’re a dentist, everyone’s like, “Well, you’ve got to do your job. Do your job! You’re a doctor.  You do your job and do your job within those hours. We’ll scrutinize you if you don’t do it.  And if there’s one issue of malpractice, well we need to question the whole NHS!”  But, with the police, it’s like, if one of them doesn’t do their job properly, there’s no “Well, we need to really question the structure of the police and how it works and laws and how it’s designed.”  And, you know, it’s just this, uhh….it’s just, I mean like I said, with most things, like it’s a noble idea, but when it becomes, uhh….it’s lead by structure, and especially when it’s uhh…structured within a capitalist paradigm, you’re always gonna have corruption every time, because there…I just think there are some things that you can’t use…quantitative methods to validate.  You can’t…you can’t…I don’t think you can do social work efficiently based on the amount hours worked, and how much overtime somebody works, and how much money they spend, because…the need to, uhhh…remedy whatever social ill you’re dealing with…can’t…they can’t all be quantified in the same way.  It’s the same way we talk about…no, it’s the same kind of movement you see about the institution of academia where you can’t have a standardized test for different species and organisms, because if we’re all tested on climbing a tree, then most of us are gonna fail.  You know, and it’s the same thing where, you know, if we’re all expected to follow laws in the same way we follow laws, then we’re all gonna fail.  Because, we…like I said…it’s like, stealing is wrong.  But then, it depends on the semantics of what we’re talking about…are we talking about stuff that doesn’t belong to us?  Cause then we have a bunch of MPs who have written it into laws that they can use expenses, but they’re misappropriating money, and then turn around and saying, “Well, there’s not enough to go around, money.  So we have to start withdrawing expenses.”  Well, maybe if you didn’t try to buy a moat, or spend £15 on a breakfast, then we wouldn’t necessarily need to have austerity.  But, it’s written into laws, because the lawmakers have made it valid for them.

Sofie: And there’s a big museum called the British museum that has a lot of stolen stuff in it.

Dane: It’s got a lot of stolen stuff in it!  The star of India is on the queen’s crown!  You know…and again, you know, you look at the queen.  “These benefit scrounges, and scrounges….who do they think they are!?”  Well, if you think about the money, the picture on it is an incentive to continue taking things, and living a life where you don’t have to work.  Where would they get that idea?  Every time they exchange…engage in commerce, they’re reminded, “Hey!  You can do nothing and get paid for it!”  Buy the queen’s picture any time.  So…you know it’s…it’s just think thing where, you know, we need to scrutinize these systems…

Sofie: But everything that you’re saying, which is so true…to people in power that would sound like, “Oh, that’s a lot of time and effort and money that would go into doing these things.”  And a lot of people would lose all their precious power.  And then we’d have to re…it’s…is it even possible to reach that level of…you know…

Dane: Well, let’s just go back to what we said in the beginning.  Well, it’s either evolve or die. Because we are arriving at a point where our previous financial systems haven’t worked.  Communism failed, but whether or not we understand it, capitalism is going to inevitably failed.  And people will be like, “Well, communism failed.  We’ve seen that with Keebler.” Yeah, but capitalism is an idea of the exploitation of labor and resources for capital.  However, resources are finite on this planet.  Whether or not you like it, oil is going to run out.  There are going to be…sooner or not there are not gonna be any diamonds…or, you know…fresh or clean water is going to run out at some point if you don’t…engage in practices of replacing it…we’re gonna run out of trees.  These things will run out, so capitalism is not something that can never fail.  And also, we know it can fail because we had these banks collapse, and then we said they were too big to fail, but that’s not how a free market works.  Also, the fact that, you know…the state bailed out these banks, or we have a Monopolies and Mergers Commission, or we have anti-trust laws in America, shows you that we are…socialism is involved in a free market, which means there is no pure capitalist market, and also in communist…economies, like North Korea for example,…well, King Jon Il just gave power to his son, so it’s dynastic, so really it’s really not communism.  It’s more like monarchy anyway.

Sofie: Yeahhh.

Dane: So, they’re not that different.  They’re all under the same umbrella of people that use their power in a corrupt way.  So, none of it is that different really, which is why again, like I said, it’s the same thing repeating over the time is that…

Sofie: Yeah, and the whole…I was shocked to hear about the voting….how people vote in this country and in America.  I think in Denmark the voting percentage is so…I think it’s like 80-90%, and I thought that was quite normal.  I expect it to be most people voting, but in America it was 50% and here it was something along the lines of the same.

Dane: Exactly, and we say 50% when…

Sofie: So that’s not democracy!

Dane: Exac….well…and isn’t that funny that…that…again, one of our badges of, uhhh, esteem, confident in the fact that we are coming from a democratic society, but two of the most major, most world-shaking political decisions involve less than half of the population.  And when you consider the prison population as well….if you consider the prison population, it’s even worse.

Sofie: Oh yeah…I was gonna go….I was trying to find out why people weren’t voting, and it’s…like when you….like in America where there were so long queues, that people just couldn’t because they had to go home and take care of their kids and go to work.  So, all of a sudden it’s only the rich people who can vote, and the well-off people, and the the the the…upper class.

Dane: And the free people, and the people that can afford to have care, and people that aren’t infirm.  So if you’re able to walk to a voting booth, then Obamacare doesn’t really matter to you that much, cause you can walk there.  Where if you’re infirm and you can’t walk to a voting booth, it’s a lot harder for you to get there.  And it’s very strange that, you know, all these other systems are supposed to become a lot more advanced in how you consume your food, and how you consume your news, how you consume your pornography, can come to you at a touch of a button, but the idea of probably one of the most important things you can vote or participate in, still is done in the same archaic way.  We have to get up and walk to a polling booth.

Sofie: But they don’t want poor people to vote, cause then they’ll lose power.

Dane: Exactly.

Sofie: They…and…and just…giving us, like, people the vote…it’s like giving us the illusion that we can have the choice, but we don’t have a choice, because more than half of the population trusts everything they watch on FOX News.  

Dane: Yep.

Sofie: And that…if you think that’s the truth, then what do you vote…what are you voting for.

Dane: Exactly, and also, most of the population are in a constant struggle to maintain their basic physiological needs, like…food, water, shelter, you know, heat, light.  Once those are the main things that you have to deal with, it’s very hard for you to transgress that stage of needs…and talk about your need for association and, uhhh, be able to be involved in these kind of bourgeoisie practices of, you know, being in politics, and, you know, creating new social structures.  You have no involvement in that.  That’s why, like most…protests, they take place at university campuses as well, because, the youth are probably the only people that even have the time, the strength, and the inclination to research, you know, political structures, and potentially rebel against them.  And like I said, it’s all part of design.  Cause there’s democratic….polling booths close.  That’s not democratic.  Because I walk in that shift, cause I’m a hard working person.  I’m a hardworking, decent, and God-fearing American.  So I work this night shift…but then I can’t be involved, because your polling booths close at this certain time of day.  So yeah, like I said, democracy alone, in itself, it’s just an idea.  But how it’s not executed to how we think it is.

Sofie: And in the UK…at least for me, I had to register to be able to vote, and it was this…and it had to be done months and months…and I didn’t know this, and it was difficult to find the website.

Dane: Oh, it’s soooo convoluted.

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: It’s even a process…it’s even…the process of being unemployed, and the stigma that people have of people that collect like, uhhh, income support, or job seekers allowance…it’s a job in itself.

Sofie: Yeah

Dane: It’s a job in itself.

Sofie: Yeah

Dane: And…people think that, you know, it’s a scrounge.  It’s a job in itself, and again…once you’re doing something like social care, or, you know, welfare, or health care assistance in a form of like a doll, that again, within a…with a capitalist framework means that…however much we lament it and the idea of scroungers…now there’s an economy around it, so we need it.  Because, if you have a job center, you have to employ staff, which means they have to get paid, and then they have to have pensions, and then they have to have security, and they have to have pensions.  They have to have resources. And the utilities. And design.  And building work.  And maintenance. And transport to and from. And uhhh…if the building is from a letting agent, it might be lease hold or free hold, so you have to pay that as well.  Then…you have all these other auxiliary things, which means that if tomorrow we were all gainfully employed, and we needed the job center, then everyone that works in job centers will lose their jobs, which means…

Sofie: But most…capitalism is just that of…if you have a capitalist society, nothing you buy…like no one means well.  They wouldn’t sell you the best couch in the world cause then you will never buy the next one…you know.  If you love your mascara, it won’t be a good…like they…they won’t…they don’t want the mascara to make you look perfect.  Cause if you look perfect…

Dane: No, no, cause then you’ve reached, you’re fulfilled.  Then you don’t need to repeat the process.

Sofie: Exactly.  And that…that’s the sa…I worked for the Danish refugee council, and on the first day of my job, the guy who runs it, the CEO said, “We are all working towards this not being a company anymore.  We’re all working towards this not existing. We’re all working towards us losing our jobs, and you need to be ok with that.”

Dane: Exactly, but it’s the same about charity.  I ad reference this in my show is that…if you work for a charity that’s in cancer research, your first thing should be “I really hope that I get very redundant tomorrow.”  

Sofie: Yeah, exactly.

Dane: That’s what you should be doing, because if you’re thinking about having a career, then it means you want a world where cancer continues to thrive.

Sofie: Yeah

Dane: Like, anyone that works in anything, whether it’s UNICEF or Red Cross, you should be like, “The best thing…the best thing that could happen at work is if they were like, ‘Guys, world peace.  Don’t even need you.”

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: That would be the best thing.  Like, is it…cause I remember, again, going back to when I was like 7.  There was a episode of “Saved by the Bell” where Kelly’s dad loses his job cause world peace breaks out, so she can’t afford to go to the prom, and it’s like, “I can’t go with you Zack. It’s really sad.”  I’m like, “How the fuck is this sad? Who is this selfish bitch, Kelly Kapowski?  You are no longer…I like Lisa now.”

Sofie: [Laughing]

Dane: “I like Lisa now. I like Jesse too, but then she did ‘Showgirls.’”  I still like Elizabeth Berkley, but ‘Showgirls’ was a bad decision. I see the reasoning behind it, but…Yeah, I just. I remember seeing the episode, and I was thinking, “Who gives a fuck if your dad doesn’t work?  It’s world peace!”

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: It’s like the best thing that could happen!  “Well my dad can’t work in the secret services.  World peace is really hard.”  It’s not really hard. It’s good for everybody else.  Well, fine. Fuck you and your dad, Kelly.

Sofie: Yeah, I think we’re good.

Dane: Yeah, fuck you, and fuck your dad, Kelly Kapowski.  Which I can say several times, cause she’s a fictional character. So fuck you Kelly, again.

Sofie: [Laughing]

Dane: There

Sofie: That was very important.  It’s uhh…it’s important to know that we’re…cause that’s a thing that’s the biggest illusion that we think we’re cared for.  We think they want us to…we think they’re doing us a favor, when there’s, you know, Black Friday, which was this weekend.  “Oh my God. They’re giving us all of these things for cheap.”

Dane: Exactly

Sofie: And you wouldn’t have bought any of it if you hadn’t…

Dane: It’s thing…that’s the thing about power, is that it’s not just a question of people asserting it over you.  It’s how much you give away. And ummm…it’s like, for example, when we do look at issues of police brutality, people are like, “Well, they’re policemen.  They have a badge, and they’ve taken an oath.  They must be…if they’re policemen, they’d obviously got the job because…”  But then,

Sofie: [Sarcastic laugh]

Dane: who’s the biggest…the biggest serial killer in the UK, what was he?  He’s a doctor.

Sofie: Who’s that..wh, wha…?

Dane: Harold Shipman.  

Sofie: Oh, really!?

Dane: He’s a doctor.

Sofie: Oh, God. I didn’t know that.

Dane: Yeah, he’s got like 233 bodies on him.  

Sofie: Haaaaa!

Dane: And we don’t even know how many there were.  But the point was, he was a doctor.  And that’s the biggest serial killer.  All the other guys might have been truckers, and all these jobs we’ve got sorted, but the person that has the most bodies on him…was someone that took a Hippocratic oath to protect life, and he took them.  So based on that merit, just because someone has a badge, you’re just gonna give over power and be like, “Well, if he has a badge, I gotta listen to him.”  But you…in most other, you know, recesses of your life, you won’t just give power over to people just because they say, “Well, this is who I am.”

Sofie: Well, I…I remember being….19, 20, and realizing that police are human beings that aren’t…

Dane: Of course they are!

Sofie: You know, when…when…like meeting…getting in an argument with one and realizing that he wasn’t gonna necessarily follow the law.

Dane: Yeah.

Sofie: And you…I mean…which is…not what you’ve been taught, or not what you were meant to believe, or not what you…

Dane: Yeah.

Sofie: …had hoped was true.

Dane: Exactly, cause who, who polices the police?

Sofie: Yeah, it’s striking.

Dane: Yeah, yeah.

Sofie: And, apparently…I don’t know how, how…how bad it is in the UK, but when we hear about America with…

Dane: It’s bad, yeah, but…

Sofie: Oh, God. That is, I mean…

Dane: Amer…but in America, it’s always been bad.  But this is our thing about America and how the police force…is that, I think the talk show host, Montell Williams, I saw him in an interview, and he was saying like, you know, like a bigger, maybe 30% of like domestic violence complaints are about policemen.  Cause the thing is what we don’t think about police as well is that, you know, not just that they have just the predisposition to go and hurt people and hide behind a badge…but they’re exposed to violence all the time.  Now we all know that most of the time when you deal with most other people that are, uhhh, perpetuators of violent crime, they’ve been brought up in an environment where violence is normal to them. And, you know, as they say “Hurt people hurt people.”  So they would’ve experienced early childhood trauma or early trauma that’s affected their psyche.  It’s like we don’t think the police are any different.  They…they’ve…police in America probably see horrible stuff.

Sofie: Yeah

Dane: To the point where their brains become twisted where, it’s like, you know, “For me to survive…

Sofie: Yeah.

Dane: “I have to commit these acts of violence, or, you know…”

Sofie: 30%

Dane: Or, or just lost perspective.  But you think about your, like, your policemen…you think of your day.  If you’re a homicide detective, and you see…or you work in like, you know, special victims unit, you know, and you’re seeing all this sexual assault, and all this crime, all this pain and suffering.  You come home and your wife’s like, “Dinner’s cold!”  You might flip out!  But, it’s just, again, because like you said.  It’s this idea that we put these people on pedestals, and are given power over, that you think that policemen can’t be human beings.  Not just that they’re just subject to corruption.  Let’s not just put it down to corruption alone.  But they’re subject to stress, or they’re subject to post-traumatic stress disorder.  You know, and how that manifests…that, you know…

Sofie: And then they live in a country where mental house is not taken care of.

Dane: Where they…where, you know, really on a policemen’s salary they probably can’t get access to the best.

Sofie: Yeah. Oh yeah.

Dane: Which again comes back to the fact that if we are going to trust these people with our safety and well-being to protect and serve, then can we be monetizing their access to healthcare?  Cause more than anybody else, it’s like, you know….”Well, teachers want more money.  This is ridiculous!”  But they’re teaching your children, so if they want NFL player money, they should be getting it.  Cause if they go into their job with a negative disposition…if not directly, indirectly you’ll be affected.  And, this is what I mean is, and this is a weird thing about humanity, that these things are linked.  It’s all well and good to be like, “Well, these teachers are greedy,” or, you know…”McDonald’s people. They want £15 an hour.  Who do they think they are!?”  They’re people that serve your food, so if they all decide, “You know what?  We’re gonna cover this food in whatever we feel like covering it in,” then, trust me, between ISIS and McDonald’s staff…the people you want to be worried more about are McDonald’s staff.  Because if they decided to get at you, they could get you, and you wouldn’t even know. So, it’s…it’s just…it’s just a weird thing to see how all these things are linked.  Where we give our power over, and ummm…yeah, and that’s…this is what I mean.  It’s like it’s very easy to, uhhh…I guess to make these observations, cause it is…like I said, it is humanity, and…and all these…and everything we talk about whether it’s Islam or police or law enforcement or politics.  These are just ideas that we’ve had as a part of our experience and our existence.  And at some point, like I said, there will be, you know, the next stage in evolution whether it is a species that’s linked to us or a new species entirely.  That will look back and be like, “You know these guys used to have like other people that were police?”  And they’ll laugh their heads off about it and be like, “How archaic!”  But it’s just this vanity that we have where people think we equate our evolution to our technological advance, and it’s not the same thing.  Our technology and the gap between inventions and innovation is increasing, but evolution doesn’t happen at the same pace. That’s a very much slower process.  So…you know you think to yourself, “Ahhh, like people used to watch people being burned at the stake!” You know, “That’s barbaric!”  But people watch women box.  And it’s like…the women that you see boxing…they’re not dressed like they’re going out for a fight.  You watch wrestling and it’s like, “You’re not dressed in a way that someone who’s gonna fight.  Your hair’s been recently coifed and permed and dyed, and you’re wearing makeup.  Those aren’t effective tools to have…like, even if the mascara is waterproof, those aren’t effective tools to have…if you’re gonna be in a fight or you’re gonna put yourself in physical danger. But obviously there’s some part of men that shows some links to sexuality to violence, so how far along have we moved really?

Sofie: Oh, there’s so much that they’re gonna be so much they’re gonna be looking back at…

Dane: Yeah!

Sofie: …things we do that makes no sense.

Dane: Exactly, but if you look at the, like I said, cause…cause…you know, evolution takes place over millennia. Like, it takes so long, that when this next species arrives, they will look at, you know, our space and our experience, cause in, in, in terms of time… [Unintelligible]…seem like a big gap.  And they’ll be like, “So there’s practice of, you know, forcing women to be sexual but also be violent beings, went on for…”  And be like, “What the hell was wrong with these people?”  Like, we think it’s not like that anymore, but in the, in the, in the grander scheme of things, there won’t be an enormous gap between there.  And they’ll be thinking what the hell is wrong with us. And that’s the thing, I think that’s…I guess that’s why I kind of rationalize a lot of these things, cause they will pass.  And these are just ideas, and, and it’s just because this is…we are, I guess, at the forefront of the experience as human beings or Homo sapiens, we don’t…we aren’t aware of our successor.  We don’t have no precedent to what happens when capitalism doesn’t work anymore. So essentially, maybe we’re maybe on the frontier of, you know…I gotta say it man, a new world order.  It’s where we are. We’re getting to that point where a new world order is coming, and it’s...  I don’t know what connotations that gives some people, but whether or not…but what, how it exists can’t continue, and if you are, you’re an evolutionist, and you will be aware that something has to change.  And at the same time, if you’re a creationist, then you know, most of your texts will tell, when things start to get to this pitch of people, when the…value of human life just becomes something that’s very easily quantified, then things have to change. Because it means that we are, uhhh…becoming anchored within our mortal coil, and we’re not, uhhh…we’re forgetting that we are consciousness or we are soul or spirit, so…something definitely has to change.

Sofie: Does that make you wanna, like, not have kids and not raise kids?

Dane: Ummm…

Sofie: Or is that another thing?

Dane: I worry about it, but then at the same time, I think, you know…my personal opinion is that…as a parent, I’m a guardian, and I can’t own life, cause it’s bigger than me, so it transpires that I’m supposed to have children, then I should have children.  Ummm…But again, I’m a guardian.  I don’t own that person.  I can guide you to a certain point into how you conduct your life for it to be easier and for you to be, uhhh, and effective part of this social species of human being, but…it comes to a point where you are, when you become sentient, and you become conscious and you have your own dream and ideas and desires.  Then, it’s not for me to tell you, because, like I said, I’m a guardian, like mother, father, uncle…which a job title, they aren’t people.  Those can be found anywhere, so…you know, I said they are…greater men have gone before me, and maybe greater people are to come after me, so it’s not for me to say whether I should have children, cause…but, you know, it might suit to have a kid at some point, but…yeah, I mean, I don’t mind having children.  That’s the idea of being here, because again, it means I’m a part of this whole evolutionary process because I’m gonna be removing the mistakes I’ve had or I’ve made or my flaws, with my offspring.  That’s how…that’s how evolution works, in that all of my mistakes are gonna be corrected with this kid.  And so, yeah, and then…yeah, and they smash through the world, man.  They come from somewhere we don’t know, and…that’s something that you have to respect.  It’s creation, isn’t it?  So, you know.  It’s the womb, man. It’s power.  So that’s not for me to say, really!  It’s what my….person bearing my child wants, really. So, her womb, her choice.  Basically.

Sofie: I feel like everyone listening….dead excited to see you do standup now.

Dane: I hope so, yeah yeah!

Sofie: Like if they’re not already list….if they’re not already seeing it.

Dane: I hope so, yeah.

Sofie: So what do you wanna…cause we don’t have time to do much more.  Uhh, so, I just wanna…I wanna give you the, ummm, possibility of plugging.

Dane: Oh, plugging, yeah.  So yeah, ummm, thank you very much for listening, and thank you for having me, Sofie.  I wanna say my show “Sunny D” is a sitcom, which is on the BBC iplayer at the moment.  Also, on the BBC1 on Sunday at 11:50, and umm…yeah.  And it’s good to watch the show, cause the show is kinda me starting to arrive at that point where, you know…I just don’t know if…a 9-5 means much in terms of the scale of infinity, so…yeah just to get more of a visual idea of what…of what I was doing, then it’s sort of a show worth watching.  And it’s also very funny as well.  And ummm, yeah.  So, yeah, just keep supporting live comedy…and uhhh, yeah, and if you guys ever wanna come to a gig, just kind me online on danebaptiste.co.uk,

Sofie: Perfect. Thank you so much for doing this.

Dane: No, thank you for having man. It’s been fun.

[Music playing]

Sofie: That was Dane Baptiste. Are you ok?  Do you need…?  You need some time to think.  I’ll make this very short.  Thank you for listening.  What a guy!  Am I right?  What a…what a guy. Umm…I’m not sure what just happened.  Right?  I love him so much.  What a…wow!  Anyways, thank you for listening.  Thank you for helping me out with this podcast.  It means an awful lot. Umm, and ummm, thank you for coming and seeing my live shows!  If you wanna know where and when they are, sign up for my newsletter, sofiehagen.com/newsletter.  Or go to my website, sofiehagen.com.  And, uhhh, Yeah, I’ll speak to you soon. Ummm…turn off…why not…why not sit down and close your eyes and uhhh…turn off all sound.  Uhhh, and and….breathe in through the nose…hold your breath and out through the mouth. Then do that a few times, and focus on, like, touch.  Focus on your feet touching the floor….you know, the breath on your lips. On, uhhh, your hands on your knees, and just…give yourself some me time.  And by that I don’t mean masturbate, but also….masturbate! That’s a good thing, isn’t it?  I’m gonna stop talking about masturbation now…uhhh, into your ears.  I’m sorry about that, your ears, uhhh... [Laughs] I will speak to you next week. Bye!

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